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Buying a Boat Computer

ewaterma

Posts: 3
Joined: 2007-12-29

I have used my IBM Thinkpad R40 on board but find that the screen is unreadable in most sunlight situations. I see that some of the marine computers offer day light readable screens. Do any of the mainstream manufacturers (non-marine) offer daylight readable screens? What spec determines this? In other words, how can I tell if a screen will be readable from the specs?

Thanks very much. Interesting series.

Ed Waterman

Submitted by ewaterma on Wed, 01/16/2008 - 11:21.

Tom_Tripp

Posts: 40
Joined: 2007-08-07

Hi Ed - I'm sure you'll hear directly here from the author, but in the meantime, you might check out Captn Jack's for a shade for your laptop. I believe they still sell one for (probabliy too much money) around $29 or so that was adjustable to fit different sized screens. It's certainly the only way you're going to see a generic laptop screen in the sunlight. There are a couple of "ruggedized" laptops, like those from Panasonic (Toughbook series) that supposedly are brighter.

Fundamentally, the issue is powering the backlight behind the liquid crystals. That's how LCD panels develop brightness - through the backlight. Screens manufactured for high brightness in environments like sunny outdoors, use what's called a "transreflective" surface behind the LCD, which actually reflects sunlight back out through the LCD, amplifying the brightness. With these screens, the brighter the sun, the brighter the image. But it's an expensive manufacturing process and, along with the other "marinizing" issues, like waterproofing, 12V power displays, cooling, etc., adds to the cost of marinized displays. Argonaut has just come out with a sub-$1,000 (don't laugh, that's good news) sunlight-readable, waterproof display (15"), so there's hope for all of us...

In the meantime, try the shade.

Wed, 01/16/2008 - 16:26

madmariner

Posts: 153
Joined: 2007-06-05

This is one of the major problems with mainstream laptops. I use a ThinkPad as well and have the same problem. I'll take a peek around and see what's out there, but everything I have seen to date is pretty expensive.

Thu, 01/24/2008 - 12:24

Sandy Daugherty

Posts: 13
Joined: 2008-01-01

While there are definite advantages to the use of a laptop to run marine software on board a recreational vessel, the choice between that and a purpose-built component PC is not a given. Here are some reasons to consider:A component PC can be cheaper than a laptop. Smaller than a cigar box, it can be installed in a protected, out of the way space; powered by shipboard 12VDC even with considerable voltage variation, and be significantly more efficient. It can be assembled by a moderately handy boat owner, and can be repaired at sea by swapping commonly available components. A Component PC can be marinized, or use inexpensive, any-size-works 'disposable' drives, keyboards, monitors, mice, hubs, and more. You can use a small, wireless, waterproof hand held screen in the cockpit (or your late model chart-plotter,) a large monitor hinging down from the overhead at the Nav station, and a projection LCD for movies in the cabin, possibly all at the same time. It will use the least expensive ram, replaceable video cards, the biggest drives, and more. With careful planning, it can end up as the least fussy choice of all, with a perpetual, transferable backup of everything you do!Here are a few interesting sites to cruise:http://www.logicsupply.com/productshttp://www.mini-itx.com/www.TheBookPC.comwww.simplifiedinnovation.com The Plan: Build a small, low power, low heat Mini- or Nano ITX PC that lives in an out-of-the-way void. Use Plug-and-play USB components (drives, DVD writers, mice, keyboards, GPS I/O) that store in a drawer, shelf, or a baggie in the bilge. Use a monitor appropriate to its location: a remote, weatherproof wireless pad in the cockpit, a good sized screen inside, or a seat-back automotive display above the Skipper's berth. Use efficient DC/DC converters to deal with the voltage fluctuations typical of a sailboat or powerboat, and avoid the problems of Square-wave inverters, RFI, excess heat buildup and concomitant corrosion issues. Buy right: Two cheap DVD drives last longer than a single more expensive one, and you can store the second one in an out of the way locker. Don't squander resources on a fast processor; the computational demands of marine navigation (including AIS and MARPA) don't even load up a Pentium III; the place that needs high power is the video processor, and you don't even need the state-of-the-art, game board video at that, unless you want to show 1080p movies from a projector!The goal is simple, inexpensive, hot-swappable, components with spares on board, for at least a single iteration of redundancy. The advantages include not having to dedicate a large chunk of desk space to a permanent-resident laptop that is visible, fragile and pilferable; and a cure for the "its-broke-and-all-my-stuff-is-in-it" disease. When (not if) technology runs away from your equipment, you can upgrade parts and continue using some of your original investment!

Tue, 01/29/2008 - 17:23

madmariner

Posts: 153
Joined: 2007-06-05

I honestly think there's a lot to recommend that approach.

It's not necessarily cheaper, and it is more work (of the sort not every boater can do). There's also the idea that those sizes are hard to work wit, as anyone who has ever cracked the case on any standard desktop knows.

But the benefits could be substantial, for all the reasons Sandy mentions. Laptops are awkward, rarely daylight viewable and marinized gear is pricey.

I've used both laptop and desktop aboard -- nothing too custom, just a mini tower with wired components -- and had good experiences both ways. In fact, I have both aboard now.

Here are Sandy's links, in case you can't read above. (Not sure what happened there).

http://www.logicsupply.com/products

http://www.mini-itx.com/

http://www.TheBookPC.com

http://www.simplifiedinnovation.com

Fri, 02/01/2008 - 02:09

melkal

Posts: 6
Joined: 2008-01-04

The single biggest issue with choosing a computer aboard a boat is a sunlight readable screen. There is a brightness measurement called "nits" which is supposed to be a measure of one screens measure of brightness to another. However, this indicator is often not published for many laptops. The ruggedized laptops like Panasonic Toughbooks (there are others), are made for outside field use and would be better suited to boating. Dell has a new PC that is supposedly sunlight readable and may publish the nits value. I have an HP Pavillion laptop which is unreadable in any sun. In my opinion, most PC's today have far more capability that anyone would need for normal boat use assuming it has a few usb ports for peripherals. To me, it is the screen readability that is the biggest concern. If you decide to use it as your only electronics unit (in addition to paper chart backup, always) make sure it is secured in place or it will "hit the deck" at the worst time!

Sat, 02/02/2008 - 21:15

Tom_Tripp

Posts: 40
Joined: 2007-08-07

I think Melkal is right about the sunlight-viewable (and waterproof in some cases) screens being the main holdup as far as PCs coming aboard in big numbers.

I recently discovered a new display being offered by Argonaut, which has finally broken the $1,000 barrier for 15-inch sunlight-readable, waterproof screens. It bodes well for those of us who don't have unlimited (read=megayacht) budgets. I foresee 17 and 19-inch screens by late this year in that price range; at the latest by early next year.

I DO think it's worth it to buy a marinized motherboard, with all connections either mechanical or hot-glued and with the board coated to resist corrosion. I also think shock-mounting of the frame is a good idea.

One other key is to plan properly for cooling. Some of the units that draw less power do so by using fan-less cooling for CPUs, which work ok but only if there's plenty of air space for cooling around the box.

Sat, 02/02/2008 - 22:06

Sandy Daugherty

Posts: 13
Joined: 2008-01-01

I have not found a useable screen for my cockpit either. I had been using a Toshiba 3400 with backlighting doubled by a Defense contractor who did the same for some Airforce Cockpit Kneepad Computers, and I was't thrilled by the visibility or the mare's nest of wires associated with its use. I don't have room for a very big screen. Has anyone seen something about 10 inches or less in diagonal with at least 1.000 nits and 800 by 600 resolution?

Sun, 02/03/2008 - 18:06

melkal

Posts: 6
Joined: 2008-01-04

This is why when I selected new navigation electronics for my boat I chose a 12" Garmin 5212 touch screen as my primary chartplotter. First of all, it is bolted in place with thru bolts. Second, it has all US charts built in. Third and most important, the screen is excellent. You can see it from being directly in front or off to the side a lot and still have a bright view. Yes, I will try to use my laptop in the dark corners of the boat and yes, I always carry and have paper charts out. Fourth, the thing is already marinized as are the network connectors, power connectors, etc and covered with big rubber protectors. There is no power brick plugged into an inverter or some other adapter with loose wires. Yes, a PC is very tempting for navigation, but by the time you take a perfectly good $500 PC and make it "boat reliable" and "viewable", I would rather boat and not play with a PC. I do have a laptop on board, I use it for email, DVD player (at night for movies), WWW, etc. I do have some nav software and charts, just in case. If it hits the deck, or takes some spray, I am only out $500. For me, it is not my primary navigator. I know others have different opinions. Someday the price of daylight viewable screens will be so low they will be part of every laptop as they become mass produced in some foreign land for 29 cents, but for now.......

Wed, 02/06/2008 - 21:54

Sandy Daugherty

Posts: 13
Joined: 2008-01-01

No arguments from me! In my previous setup, I used a JRC 1500 MK2 and a Garmin 182C in the cockpit, and loved them. Before that I tried a laptop in the cabin, with 4 sets of cables and cords attached! My current install includes a Garmin 3010C at the helm, a 4208 at the nav table*, GMR 18 on the mast, XMWx, AIS, DSC, TV screen on the bridge deck, and a couple of experiments: fwd scanning sonar on a retractable strut between the hulls and low light video camera under the radome. The last are on the cheap. I can display the FLS and the camera on either MFD, and either MFD can be displayed on the PC at the nav station or the TV in the salon. For that matter, so can Harry Potter. In fact, I don't really need the PC for navigation or entertainment. But for everything else, its good to have.

*for strange reasons.

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 20:09

Sandy Daugherty

Posts: 13
Joined: 2008-01-01

If there's any interest, I’m thinking about building another boat computer and writing a do-it-yourself article on it. It would be a boat PC for navigation, aimed at the moderately skilled boat-owner who likes to be able to fix things on his vessel. I need some suggestions.

Size: Should it be about the size of a shoebox, a Kleenex box, a cigar box, or a couple paperback books? Why?

Where will it live?

Will it run an autopilot, radar, night vision camera or AIS transceiver?

Are noise and heat output an issue?

Will it run software with a touch-screen interface?

Where and what kind of displays and input devices should it have?

Can it use external drives located apart from the CPU box, if needed?

Should it run XP only, or should it at least be capable of upgrading to Vista later?

Should it run on boat voltage, on its own inverter, or on 120VAC?

How long should it last? ( This is a thought provoking question.)

Should it be built as cheap as possible, or can the budget expand for features and functions, such as communications, entertainment, systems management, log-keeping, or other? Or to put it another way, If you were buying or building one, would it be feature-rich or frugal? How much?

I’m of a mind to not marinize this computer because I’ve had some luck swapping cheap components. Is this an issue?

How much redundancy do you insist on with your existing equipment?

As it is, I don’t know whether I should try to beat the price of a new laptop, or provide capabilities beyond one. Tell me!

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 20:19

melkal

Posts: 6
Joined: 2008-01-04

Sandy,

You threw out the chum and got no bites! Hmm. Perhaps most people, except geeks, could care less about hardware onboard, it is the software that rules! Back to the old screen visability issue and of course space to mount the stuff securely. If you are wealthy, you hire a geeky company and for a zillion bucks you get the state of the art installed on the specially designed helm. By the time the boat hits the water, the pc is already outdated by either the processor, display or some such improvement and the tail chase begins again. Does it all work and interfaced to everything else. Probably, but who really remembers how to run it once it leave the dock? On my microwave, I usually press auto, 1 minute. Isn't there a way to reduce the power???

Sat, 03/08/2008 - 23:54

blubaju

Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-12-31

... I need some suggestions.

Size: Should it be about the size of a shoebox, a Kleenex box, a cigar box, or a couple paperback books? Why?

all ok up to desktop size; should have attachment holes or rails to screw on

Where will it live? below navigation table

Will it run an autopilot, radar, night vision camera or AIS transceiver?

all of them plus multi media center and home office

Are noise and heat output an issue?

for sure, noise in a small boat at night is not acceptable, half the crew wants sleep, scientists say niose is bad for concentration and makes tired. Heat output is wasted energy, energy on a sailing boat is very expensive!

Will it run software with a touch-screen interface? At least I do not have any (yet), anyway, marine touch screens are not the cheapest

Where and what kind of displays and input devices should it have? Usually I work with 2 at same time (extended desktop), on the boat needs at least one additional at helm and maybe option for another in captains cabin

Can it use external drives located apart from the CPU box, if needed?

the main drive should be built-in, the performance is much better

Should it run XP only, or should it at least be capable of upgrading to Vista later?

Vista, maybe downgraded to XP as you do not get anything else anyway and most of us are to old and/or lazy to learn linux

Should it run on boat voltage, on its own inverter, or on 120VAC?

Boat voltage is a must, an inverter is a boat heating element wasting energy, the inner voltage in a modern pc is 12, 5 and 3 V, does not make sense to go 12V to 110 and then back again

How long should it last? ( This is a thought provoking question.) 5years

I’m of a mind to not marinize this computer because I’ve had some luck swapping cheap components. Is this an issue?

marinised is a commercial fairy tail, unless it comes to the shell itself, but the circuit boards are basically the same, if you are scared buy a spray and protect the very few solderings that where made after assembly. As this PC hides somewhere inside waterproofnes is no issue, the ships movement is not as hupy as a car, so no problem with HDs in general and nowadays you can boot from an usb-stick

Should its data be protected by backups or raid arrays, or would it be sufficient to carry the original distribution software and a cd, memory card, or thumb drive full of routes, waypoints, logs and records? At least the navigational software incl weather should bequickly installable, that calls for an usb-stick or RAID or better both.

How much redundancy do you insist on with your existing equipment?

mission critical software must be usable in shortest time

As it is, I don’t know whether I should try to beat the price of a new laptop, or provide capabilities beyond one. Tell me!

Very unlikely that you could reach that goal

Sat, 06/07/2008 - 09:16

terrrenceg

Posts: 2
Joined: 2008-10-02

This is the first season of using a Toughbook running a sidescan sonar and Fugawi.

Amazing improvement over any other laptops I have used on board.

Not cheap but try and drop your Thinkpad on a wet steel deck before you boot it up.

Screen is 10X better in the sun than any other laptop or dedicated marine electronics screen that I have used.

Tue, 10/07/2008 - 20:49